
Florida State Seminoles (@FSUFootball)
Mike Norvell (6th year) (33-27)
Record: 0 - 0 | Prediction: 6.5 - 5.5 (#66) | SOS: (#39)
Power (#47) | Off (#71) | Def (#31) | Roster | Portals | Croots
Record: 0 - 0 | Prediction: 6.5 - 5.5 (#66) | SOS: (#39)

Florida State's 2025 Schedule | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Date | Matchup | Spread | Total | Result | O/U | Cover | |
Fri 8/29 | Florida State vs Alabama | +11.5 | 51.5 | U | Y | ||
Fri 9/5 | Florida State vs East Texas A&M | -29.5 | |||||
BYE WEEK | |||||||
Fri 9/19 | Florida State vs Kent State | -35.5 | |||||
Thu 9/25 | Florida State at Virginia | -4 | |||||
Fri 10/3 | Florida State vs Miami | +10.5 | |||||
Fri 10/10 | Florida State vs Pittsburgh | -4 | |||||
Fri 10/17 | Florida State at Stanford | -9 | |||||
BYE WEEK | |||||||
Fri 10/31 | Florida State vs Wake Forest | -15.5 | |||||
Fri 11/7 | Florida State at Clemson | +20 | |||||
Fri 11/14 | Florida State vs Virginia Tech | -2 | |||||
Thu 11/20 | Florida State at NC State | +2.5 | |||||
Fri 11/28 | Florida State at Florida | +15 |
Record Prediction: 6.5 - 5.5 #66
Schedule Rating: #39
Future 2026 Schedule
Florida State's 2024 Schedule | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Date | Matchup | Spread | Total | Result | O/U | Cover | |
Sat 8/24 | Florida State vs Georgia Tech | -10.0 | 54.5 | L 21 - 24 | U | N | |
Mon 9/2 | Florida State vs Boston College | -16.5 | 50.0 | L 13 - 28 | U | N | |
BYE WEEK | |||||||
Sat 9/14 | Florida State vs Memphis | -7.0 | 52.0 | L 12 - 20 | U | N | |
Sat 9/21 | Florida State vs California | -3.0 | 44.0 | W 14 - 9 | U | Y | |
Sat 9/28 | Florida State at SMU | +6.0 | 46.0 | L 16 - 42 | O | N | |
Sat 10/5 | Florida State vs Clemson | +16.5 | 47.0 | L 13 - 29 | U | Y | |
BYE WEEK | |||||||
Fri 10/18 | Florida State at Duke | +2.5 | 43.0 | L 16 - 23 | U | N | |
Sat 10/26 | Florida State at Miami | +22.5 | 55.0 | L 14 - 36 | U | Y | |
Sat 11/2 | Florida State vs North Carolina | +2.5 | 50.5 | L 11 - 35 | U | N | |
Sat 11/9 | Florida State at Notre Dame | +25.5 | 44.5 | L 3 - 52 | O | N | |
BYE WEEK | |||||||
Sat 11/23 | Florida State vs Charleston Southern | -33.0 | 44.5 | W 41 - 7 | O | Y | |
Sat 11/30 | Florida State vs Florida | +17.5 | 45.5 | L 11 - 31 | U | N |
2024 Record: 2 - 10 (ACC: 1 - 7)
Spread Record 4 - 8 - 0 | O/U 3 - 9
2025 class: 244 points #19
2024 class: 272 points #12
2023 class: 237 points #19
2022 class: 229 points #20
2021 class: 215 points #22
Average Class Ranking: #18
Average Recruiting Points: 239
2024 class: 272 points #12
2023 class: 237 points #19
2022 class: 229 points #20
2021 class: 215 points #22
Average Class Ranking: #18
Average Recruiting Points: 239
Class Averages
ACC Class: 211 #42
Power 4 Class: 225 #42
FBS Class: 179 #69
ACC Class: 211 #42
Power 4 Class: 225 #42
FBS Class: 179 #69
2020 class: 238 points #22
2019 class: 244 points #19
2018 class: 265 points #11
2017 class: 293 points #6
2016 class: 295 points #3
Average Class Ranking: #12
Average Recruiting Points: 267
2019 class: 244 points #19
2018 class: 265 points #11
2017 class: 293 points #6
2016 class: 295 points #3
Average Class Ranking: #12
Average Recruiting Points: 267
 
Offensive Coordinator Gus Malzahn
(Tr) - new transfer in 2025
Player Name | COMP | ATT | PCT | YDS | TD | INT | YPA |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Thomas Castellanos (Tr) | 99 | 161 | 62% | 1366 | 18 | 5 | 8.5 |
Brock Glenn | 51 | 114 | 45% | 597 | 4 | 5 | 5.2 |
Player Name | CAR | YDS | TD | YPC | LONG |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Thomas Castellanos (Tr) | 93 | 194 | 1 | 2.1 | 18 |
Kam Davis | 52 | 173 | 0 | 3.3 | 16 |
Gavin Sawchuk (Tr) | 39 | 128 | 1 | 3.3 | 21 |
Brock Glenn | 35 | 97 | 0 | 2.8 | 17 |
Player Name | REC | YDS | TD | YPC | LONG |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Randy Pittman (Tr) | 32 | 416 | 2 | 13.0 | 48 |
Duce Robinson (Tr) | 23 | 396 | 5 | 17.2 | 48 |
Squirrel White (Tr) | 34 | 381 | 2 | 11.2 | 45 |
Landen Thomas | 14 | 173 | 1 | 12.4 | 35 |
Defensive Coordinator Tony White
Top Def | Tack | TFL | SACKS | PRESS | PD |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Shyheim Brown | 62 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
Elijah Herring (Tr) | 59 | 8 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
Deante McCray (Tr) | 55 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 |
K.J. Kirkland | 45 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
Sacks | Tack | TFL | SACKS | PRESS | PD |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Deamontae Diggs (Tr) | 34 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 2 |
James Williams (Tr) | 14 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 0 |
Darrell Jackson | 28 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 1 |
Elijah Herring (Tr) | 59 | 8 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
Pass D | Tack | TFL | SACKS | PRESS | PD |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Jeremiah Wilson (Tr) | 24 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 4 |
Elijah Herring (Tr) | 59 | 8 | 4 | 3 | 4 |
Omar Graham Jr. | 37 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 3 |
Returning Production
Overall Returning Production: 61% #41
Offense Returning Production: 62% #51
Defense Returning Production: 59% #48
Overall Returning Production: 61% #41
Offense Returning Production: 62% #51
Defense Returning Production: 59% #48
Transfer Portal
2025 Portal Class #6
18 Commits, 88.5 Avg Rating
27% of 2025 Roster from Portal, 27% TY
2025 Portal Class #6
18 Commits, 88.5 Avg Rating
27% of 2025 Roster from Portal, 27% TY
Team Talent
2025 Talent Rating: 932.00 #17
Offense Talent #12 | Defense Talent #22
2024 #9 | 2023 #24 | 2022 #18 | 2021 #20
2025 Talent Rating: 932.00 #17
Offense Talent #12 | Defense Talent #22
2024 #9 | 2023 #24 | 2022 #18 | 2021 #20
2025 - 2022 Records
2025 Record: 0 - 0
2025 Conf Record: 0 - 0
Spread: 0 - 0 - 0 | Totals: 0 - 0
2024 Record: 2 - 10
2024 Conf Record: 1 - 7
Spread: 4 - 8 - 0 | Totals: 3 - 9
2023 Record: 13 - 1
2023 Conf Record: 9 - 0
Spread: 8 - 5 - 0 | Totals: 7 - 7
2022 Record: 10 - 3
2022 Conf Record: 5 - 3
Spread: 8 - 5 - 0 | Totals: 6 - 7
Four Year Record: 25 - 14
Four Year Record vs. Spread: 20 - 18 - 0
Four Year Conference Record: 15 - 10
2025 Record: 0 - 0
2025 Conf Record: 0 - 0
Spread: 0 - 0 - 0 | Totals: 0 - 0
2024 Record: 2 - 10
2024 Conf Record: 1 - 7
Spread: 4 - 8 - 0 | Totals: 3 - 9
2023 Record: 13 - 1
2023 Conf Record: 9 - 0
Spread: 8 - 5 - 0 | Totals: 7 - 7
2022 Record: 10 - 3
2022 Conf Record: 5 - 3
Spread: 8 - 5 - 0 | Totals: 6 - 7
Four Year Record: 25 - 14
Four Year Record vs. Spread: 20 - 18 - 0
Four Year Conference Record: 15 - 10
2021 - 2018 Records
2021 Record: 5 - 7
2021 Conf Record: 4 - 5
Spread: 6 - 6 - 0 | Totals: 4 - 8
2020 Record: 3 - 6
2020 Conf Record: 2 - 6
Spread: 3 - 6 - 0 | Totals: 6 - 3
2019 Record: 6 - 7
2019 Conf Record: 4 - 4
Spread: 4 - 8 - 1 | Totals: 6 - 7
2018 Record: 5 - 7
2018 Conf Record: 3 - 5
Spread: 4 - 8 - 0 | Totals: 8 - 4
Eight Year Record: 44 - 41
Eight Year Record vs. Spread: 37 - 46 - 1
Eight Year Conference Record: 33 - 30
2021 Record: 5 - 7
2021 Conf Record: 4 - 5
Spread: 6 - 6 - 0 | Totals: 4 - 8
2020 Record: 3 - 6
2020 Conf Record: 2 - 6
Spread: 3 - 6 - 0 | Totals: 6 - 3
2019 Record: 6 - 7
2019 Conf Record: 4 - 4
Spread: 4 - 8 - 1 | Totals: 6 - 7
2018 Record: 5 - 7
2018 Conf Record: 3 - 5
Spread: 4 - 8 - 0 | Totals: 8 - 4
Eight Year Record: 44 - 41
Eight Year Record vs. Spread: 37 - 46 - 1
Eight Year Conference Record: 33 - 30
Florida State Recent Bowl History | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Date | Bowl | Matchup | Spread | Total | Result |
2023 | Orange Bowl | Florida State vs Georgia | +23.5 | 47.0 | L 3 - 63 |
2022 | It Bowl | Florida State vs Oklahoma | -10.5 | 67.0 | W 35 - 32 |
2019 | N/A | Florida State vs Arizona State | +3.5 | 51.5 | L 14 - 20 |
2017 | Independence Bowl | Florida State vs Southern Miss | -12.5 | 48.0 | W 42 - 13 |
2016 | Orange Bowl | Florida State vs Michigan | +6.5 | 51.0 | W 33 - 32 |
2015 | N/A | Florida State vs Houston | -6.5 | L 24 - 38 |
Power Ranking Stats (2024)
More Stats (2024)
Overall Stats (2024)
Run Game Stats (2024)
Pass Game Stats (2024)
Teams | Offense PPA | Offense Success | Offense Pts Per Opp | Avg Start FP | 3rd Down % | 4th Down % | Defense PPA | Defense Success | Defense Pts Per Opp | Opponent FP |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 | .06 (125) | 35% (128) | 2.88 (131) | 26.3 (127) | 29% | 63% | .25 (112) | 41% (56) | 3.62 (46) | 30.5 (110) |
Teams | Offense PPA | Offense Success | Offense Pts Per Opp | Avg Start FP | 3rd Down % | 4th Down % | Defense PPA | Defense Success | Defense Pts Per Opp | Opponent FP |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2023 | .21 (60) | 41% (79) | 4.45 (25) | 29.5 (61) | 36% | 48% | .09 (13) | 36% (9) | 3.5 (47) | 25.9 (9) |
More Stats (2024)
Teams | Games | Possession Time | 1st Downs PG | 3rd Down % | 4th Down % | Penalties PG | Penalty Yds PG | Off TO PG | Def TO PG | TFL PG | Sacks PG | D/ST TDs |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 | 12 | 27:11 (125) | 15.2 (130) | 29% | 63% | 5.6 (50) | 47.9 (42) | 1.8 (110) | 0.5 | 5.8 (54) | 2 (62) | 1 |
Teams | Games | Possession Time | 1st Downs PG | 3rd Down % | 4th Down % | Penalties PG | Penalty Yds PG | Off TO PG | Def TO PG | TFL PG | Sacks PG | D/ST TDs |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2023 | 14 | 29:23 (26) | 19.6 (50) | 36% | 48% | 6.1 (106) | 56.6 (114) | 0.6 (6) | 1.2 | 6.7 (10) | 3.2 (3) | 2 |
Overall Stats (2024)
Teams | Games | PPG | Home | Road | Success Rate | Pts PerOpp | TO | 1stD PG | TotalYds PG | RushYds PG | PassYdsPG | RYPA | Run Rate | Pass Rate | Run Success | Pass Success | Havoc Rate | Total PPA |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 Offense | 12 | 15.4 | 16.4 | 12.3 | 35.4% (128) | 2.88 (131) | 1.8 | 15 | 271 | 91 | 180 | 2.9 | 46% (101) | 54% (35) | 40% (103) | 31% (130) | 21% (129) | .06 (125) |
2024 Defense | 12 | 28 | 22.7 | 38.3 | 40.8% (56) | 3.62 (46) | 0.5 | - | - | - | - | - | 56% (119) | 44% (15) | 42% (62) | 39% (52) | 14% (98) | .25 (112) |
Teams | Games | PPG | Home | Road | Success Rate | Pts PerOpp | TO | 1stD PG | TotalYds PG | RushYds PG | PassYdsPG | RYPA | Run Rate | Pass Rate | Run Success | Pass Success | Havoc Rate | Total PPA |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2023 Offense | 14 | 34.6 | 44.8 | 30.2 | 41.3% (79) | 4.45 (25) | 0.6 | 20 | 401 | 150 | 251 | 4.5 | 47% (93) | 53% (39) | 39% (113) | 43% (54) | 15% (57) | .21 (60) |
2023 Defense | 14 | 19.3 | 14.3 | 18.2 | 35.5% (9) | 3.5 (47) | 1.2 | - | - | - | - | - | 49% (49) | 51% (90) | 40% (38) | 32% (1) | 21% (7) | .09 (13) |
Run Game Stats (2024)
Teams | Games | Run Play Rate | Run Play Success | Rush Att PG | Rush Yds PG | Rush Yds Per Att | Rushing TDs | Run Pred Pts Added | OL Yds Per Att | 3rd/4th & Short | Front 7 Havoc | Run Play Explosivness |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 Offense | 12 | 46% (101) | 40% (103) | 31.4 | 90.8 | 2.9 | 8 (130) | .07 (101) | 2.9 (92) | 68% (103) | 15% (130) | 0.87 (118) |
2024 Defense | 12 | 56% (119) | 42% (62) | - | - | - | - | .2 (109) | 3.06 (81) | 80% (111) | 10% (77) | 1.1 (114) |
Teams | Games | Run Play Rate | Run Play Success | Rush Att PG | Rush Yds PG | Rush Yds Per Att | Rushing TDs | Run Pred Pts Added | OL Yds Per Att | 3rd/4th & Short | Front 7 Havoc | Run Play Explosivness |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2023 Offense | 14 | 47% (93) | 39% (113) | 33.1 | 150.1 | 4.5 | 32 (10) | .07 (111) | 2.64 (128) | 63% (123) | 9% (52) | 1.06 (35) |
2023 Defense | 14 | 49% (49) | 40% (38) | - | - | - | - | .12 (51) | 2.75 (19) | 77% (96) | 12% (20) | 1.07 (102) |
Pass Game Stats (2024)
Teams | Games | PassPlay Rate | PassPlay Success | Comp PG | Att PG | Yds PG | Yds PA | Yds PC | TDs | Ints | PassPlays PPA | PassPlays Expl | PassDowns Rate | PassDowns Succ Rate | PassDowns PPA | DB Havoc | PassDowns Expl |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2024 Offense | 12 | 54% (35) | 31% (130) | 14.9 | 29.6 | 180.3 | 6.1 | 12.1 | 11 (122) | 13 (103) | .04 (130) | 1.8 (20) | 39% (133) | 26% (113) | .24 (102) | 6% (62) | 2.1 (28) |
2024 Defense | 12 | 44% (15) | 39% (52) | - | - | - | - | - | - | 4 (125) | .34 (110) | 1.8 (120) | 33% (45) | 34% (110) | .52 (127) | 5% (116) | 2.3 (121) |
Teams | Games | PassPlay Rate | PassPlay Success | Comp PG | Att PG | Yds PG | Yds PA | Yds PC | TDs | Ints | PassPlays PPA | PassPlays Expl | PassDowns Rate | PassDowns Succ Rate | PassDowns PPA | DB Havoc | PassDowns Expl |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2023 Offense | 14 | 53% (39) | 43% (54) | 18.6 | 30.9 | 250.6 | 8.1 | 13.5 | 25 (37) | 4 (2) | .34 (46) | 1.6 (48) | 32% (78) | 31% (66) | .36 (61) | 6% (67) | 2.2 (32) |
2023 Defense | 14 | 51% (90) | 32% (1) | - | - | - | - | - | - | 10 (67) | .06 (4) | 1.6 (65) | 36% (16) | 27% (28) | .22 (22) | 9% (2) | 1.9 (24) |
Team Notes (5/11) 80% of OL exp from portal adds ❌
(5/1) Watch Fr RB O. Kromah, could jump Kam Davis ❌
(3/22) Portal class includes 7 P4 starters from LY ❌
(3/19) QB Castellanos (BC), new OC Malzahn ❌
(3/19) RBs lots of talent, nothing proven ❌
(3/19) WR rebuild. White(Tenn)/Robinson(USC) help ❌
(3/19) OL a disaster LY. 4 portal adds. Will be better ❌
(3/19) Def OK LY considering, need much more TY ❌
(5/1) Watch Fr RB O. Kromah, could jump Kam Davis ❌
(3/22) Portal class includes 7 P4 starters from LY ❌
(3/19) QB Castellanos (BC), new OC Malzahn ❌
(3/19) RBs lots of talent, nothing proven ❌
(3/19) WR rebuild. White(Tenn)/Robinson(USC) help ❌
(3/19) OL a disaster LY. 4 portal adds. Will be better ❌
(3/19) Def OK LY considering, need much more TY ❌
Injury Notes
Staff/Schedule Notes (3/19) OC Malzahn interesting, DC White good ❌
Power Ratings Overall: 8.36 #43
Offense: 15.80 #58
Defense: 7.44 #28
SP+ Overall: 3.2 #51
SP+ Offense: 25.0 #84
SP+ Defense: 21.7 #33
Offense: 15.80 #58
Defense: 7.44 #28
SP+ Overall: 3.2 #51
SP+ Offense: 25.0 #84
SP+ Defense: 21.7 #33
Returning Prod '24 QB Brock Glenn returns
Returning Production: 61% #41
Offense: 62% #51 | Defense: 59% #48
OL Prod: 69% #37, 0 clear starters
OL Snaps: 3850 #29 | From Portal: 3075 #4
Rush Prod: 65% #51 | Rec Prod: 57% #50
Def Front Seven: 68% - Secondary: 68%
Returning Production: 61% #41
Offense: 62% #51 | Defense: 59% #48
OL Prod: 69% #37, 0 clear starters
OL Snaps: 3850 #29 | From Portal: 3075 #4
Rush Prod: 65% #51 | Rec Prod: 57% #50
Def Front Seven: 68% - Secondary: 68%
Roster Team Talent #17 Blue Chips: 42% #16
Offense Talent #12 Defense Talent #22
Crootin Class #19 - 4 YR Rank #18
Portal Class #6 - 18 players, 89 Avg
27% of Roster from Portal, 27% TY
46 New Players, 49% of '25 Roster #103
Offense Talent #12 Defense Talent #22
Crootin Class #19 - 4 YR Rank #18
Portal Class #6 - 18 players, 89 Avg
27% of Roster from Portal, 27% TY
46 New Players, 49% of '25 Roster #103
2025 Schedule Record Prediction: 6.5 - 5.5 #66
Vegas Win Total Record: 7.5 - 4.5
Schedule Rating: 56 #39
View Schedule & Predicted Results
Opps: Elite: 4, Good: 1, Avg: 3, Bad: 2, Poor: 2
Vegas Win Total Record: 7.5 - 4.5
Schedule Rating: 56 #39
View Schedule & Predicted Results
Opps: Elite: 4, Good: 1, Avg: 3, Bad: 2, Poor: 2
Scoring Scoring: 15.4 - 28 (35 - 19) in '24
Scoring at Home: 16 - 23 | Road: 12 - 38
OC: Gus Malzahn - in his first season
DC: Tony White - in his first season
Scoring at Home: 16 - 23 | Road: 12 - 38
OC: Gus Malzahn - in his first season
DC: Tony White - in his first season
Records 2024 Record: 2 - 10 (4 - 8 - 0) (ACC: 1 - 7)
2023 Record: 13 - 1 (8 - 5 - 0) (ACC: 9 - 0)
2022 Record: 10 - 3 (8 - 5 - 0) (ACC: 5 - 3)
4 Yr Record: (25 - 14) | 8 Yr Record: (44 - 41)
2023 Record: 13 - 1 (8 - 5 - 0) (ACC: 9 - 0)
2022 Record: 10 - 3 (8 - 5 - 0) (ACC: 5 - 3)
4 Yr Record: (25 - 14) | 8 Yr Record: (44 - 41)
'24 OffensePass heavy Offense 54%, Run: 46%
Awful Offense Success Rate of 35%
Awful Offensive Explosiveness
Awful in Scoring Position 2.88 PPO
Poor Run Success 40%
Awful Pass Success 31%
Poor Offensive Turnovers
Bad OL Grades, Poor OL Yds Per Rush
Awful 1st/2nd Down Success 61%
Awful when off Schedule 26%
Awful Offense Success Rate of 35%
Awful Offensive Explosiveness
Awful in Scoring Position 2.88 PPO
Poor Run Success 40%
Awful Pass Success 31%
Poor Offensive Turnovers
Bad OL Grades, Poor OL Yds Per Rush
Awful 1st/2nd Down Success 61%
Awful when off Schedule 26%
'24 DefenseAvg DL Grades, Bad Sacks/Turnovers
Avg Defense Success Rate of 41%
Avg in Scoring Position 3.62 PPO
Avg Run Def Success 42%
Avg Pass Def Success 39%
Poor Pressure/Havoc/Forcing TOs
Awful at Forcing Turnovers
Avg Penalty Team, Bad Field Position
Avg 1st/2nd Down Success 67%
Poor when Opp is off Schedule 34%
Avg Defense Success Rate of 41%
Avg in Scoring Position 3.62 PPO
Avg Run Def Success 42%
Avg Pass Def Success 39%
Poor Pressure/Havoc/Forcing TOs
Awful at Forcing Turnovers
Avg Penalty Team, Bad Field Position
Avg 1st/2nd Down Success 67%
Poor when Opp is off Schedule 34%
Team Notes80% of OL exp from portal adds
Watch Fr RB O. Kromah, could jump Kam Davis
Portal class includes 7 P4 starters from LY
QB Castellanos (BC), new OC Malzahn
RBs lots of talent, nothing proven
WR rebuild. White(Tenn)/Robinson(USC) help
OL a disaster LY. 4 portal adds. Will be better
Def OK LY considering, need much more TY
OC Malzahn interesting, DC White good
Watch Fr RB O. Kromah, could jump Kam Davis
Portal class includes 7 P4 starters from LY
QB Castellanos (BC), new OC Malzahn
RBs lots of talent, nothing proven
WR rebuild. White(Tenn)/Robinson(USC) help
OL a disaster LY. 4 portal adds. Will be better
Def OK LY considering, need much more TY
OC Malzahn interesting, DC White good